PODCASTS

Kaelynn Reid Of Kimball International: The use of probiotics in sustainable building materials

Kaelynn Reid Of Kimball International: The use of probiotics in sustainable building materials

 

We have heard of some great uses of building materials in furthering sustainability and improving people’s lives. However, Kaelynn Reid at National Office Furniture goes over a novel way of using probiotics with building materials and the latest studies on its benefits. It’s a great listen on a creative way to have a greener world and healthier lives.

 



 

 

Podcast Participants:

Graham: Product Director Concora
Kip Rapp: CEO Concora
Kaelynn Reid: Regional workplace advisor for Kimball International

 

 

Graham:

Hello, everyone and welcome to the Concora Corner. A podcast dedicated to bringing you interviews with folks working in the AC and BPM industry. I’m one of your hosts, Graham Waldrop, a director of product here at Concora. Today on the show we’re talking with Kaelynn Reid, who is a regional workplace advisor for Kimball International. Kaelynn currently hosts The Alternative Design Podcast, which seeks to empower creatives to improve the human experience through design. Kaelynn offers an introspective analysis of how important it is to consider the mental and physical health of others when it comes to creating buildings and spaces, and what we can do to make these spaces safer and more enjoyable for everyone. I hope you enjoy today’s interview with Kaelynn, but before we begin, here’s a quick word from our CEO, Kip Rapp.


Kip:

I wanted to thank everyone again for listening to our podcast, and if you’re interested in knowing more about Concora. We help building product manufacturers get specified and purchase more by providing a great web experience that’s bolted onto your website. It makes it easy for your architects engineers, and contractors to do business online with you. We sum it up as three things. It’s providing a good web experience, good content and good tools. And we have some great tools such as middles, sustainability, project showcases or anything else needed by our design community to specify and purchase products. We’d be more than happy to show you a quick demo and you can go to concora.com to learn more. Your case studies and see how other customers have grown sales with our partnership.

Hi, Kaelynn. It’s awesome to have you on our podcast and definitely was excited to talk about what you’re doing there, because I know in the… and it actually has not come up before and personally, I’ve never really thought about that just these safe spaces and how you equate that to the microbiomes and the furniture and the products that you have. So, I do think with COVID and I do talk to a lot of other folks that have an emphasis on sustainability and health and wellbeing and happiness, and productivity of employees and people in general, either at the home or in the office. So I think that’s all great because it’s all about education. And then from there that’s how we can make a difference. So appreciate your time today.


Kaelynn Reid:

Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me on Kip. I really appreciate it. And I think you’re so right that… I think right now in this cultural moments, it’s imperative that we really take wellness and put that at the forefront. I think a lot of folks they’re taking… stuck not only in their physical wellness, in mental health and in mental wellness, right? So we’ve seen post 2020, just again, how important that is and really it’s not an amenity anymore, right? So it’s not a nice to have, it’s a have to have. And so how… even just the workplace and these other built environment spaces address those important needs post COVID, is going to be really critical to understand, so.


Kip:

That’s awesome. Yeah. And I get that it was definitely important before with COVID, but yeah, I was talking to someone yesterday, we’re just talking about the importance of obviously happy people and healthy people performance and the different things. The gentleman I was talking to yesterday had a solar lights, right? And natural lighting. And you just don’t think about the impact of artificial lighting and the heat and all that other stuff that comes off of that. So it’s really good to promote that. So with our listeners Kaelynn, can you introduce yourself what you do and what your company does?


Kaelynn Reid:

Absolutely. So my role actually recently changed. I am a regional workplace advisor for Kimball International. I was formally a rep for National Office Furniture. So I schlepped furniture around and I create really outstanding unique experiences for the A&D community. And, again, I’m just trying to pioneer thought leadership and serve the community with solutions, would be best for them as it relates to furniture. So, as I mentioned my role has recently changed and so really, again, that role is a lot of curating trends and being the boots on the ground to understand what is it that’s happening in the industry as we know it.

Really trying to keep a tight pulse and at a beat to the latest innovations and not just in furniture but really what’s in the design and creative industries in general, what’s happening. So it’s been really fun to explore the new role and get a feel for that, but I also am a podcast host myself. I’m actually the host of The Alternative Design Podcast. We are on episode five right now, and I actually have about five hours’ worth of editing to do right after this phone call.


Kip:

Yeah. My coworker did a sports podcast just on the side. So he had a lot of experience and he does the editing. So I was like, “I don’t know what a podcast is.” So, but they’re really fun. You’re on number five and you mentioned… so did you switch companies?

 

Kaelynn Reid:

No, actually, so National is a part of Kimball International. So it’s all part of the umbrella of brands, so…


Kip:

Okay. Yeah. I was like, that’s a lot of change in the last week.


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah, no, absolutely. It’s kind of been in the past month or so. And so, just… yeah, it’s been a whirlwind, man the past two years it’s just… I got married, I moved, I got a new job. I switched from being an interior designer to a brand representative. And now I’m a podcast host, so you just can’t keep track.


Kip:

Then you get 10 kids and four cars.


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. We’re waiting on that one still, but yes, it’s… maybe in the next three years we’ll that one work out.


Kip:

Well, I love your job and how you described it. So curating trends, so trends anywhere from functional, latest and greatest, innovative, sustainability, I think all that’s in scope.


Kaelynn Reid:

Absolutely. And I think specifically in my scope, it’s anything that’s alternative, right? So not to be cliche or to hit the nail on the head, but really I’m drawn to the voices and ideas and concepts that are maybe found outside in the margins of maybe some of the mainstream conversations that are happening in the industry. So for example, I think that ADA discussions are incredible to have and sustainability and all those things are important and critical discussions in the marketplace and especially in design circles. But what I’m interested in is that the folks that have maybe different ideas about how we should propel those topics and really progress and move forward. And so sometimes that looks like removing the framework and the structure that you have had, and looking at something a little bit outside of the box to really inform and inspire you to think differently on how to solve problems.


Kip:

That’s awesome. And is that both on the residential and commercial side?


Kaelynn Reid:

Mainly commercial right now.


Kip:

And are your ideas mainly from the AD community or is there a breadth of people that give you ideas?


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah, so I would say as it relates to the the workplace advisory role, I think a lot of that content is taken from observation of the A&D community. And again, keeping a tight pulse on what’s happening. When it comes to the podcast though. I think that could be anything and everything, right? So we just did an episode on Motown music. And so if anybody’s familiar, the aren’t no mountain high enough, why Motown music can inspire designers. Architects and designers can draw from Motown’s songwriting process and actually integrate that into their own creative process. And we shared a few pointers and tips and so it’s unlikely and unusual suspects, Kip. That’s really what it is.


Kip:

And gladly eclectic crew of ideas and creativity. Very cool. Why I love that? I think creativity is from all angles and the best ideas are the ones you’ve never thought about before or anyone else, right? So that’s really cool. So to this topic, and as you mentioned earlier, safe places, so let’s go from there. And what does that mean to you and why is that important to our audience?


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. So like we were saying before, wellness is of course such a top priority, not only to the return to workplace, but just the return to the built environment in general, right? So, and of course, one of the aspects of wellness is understanding safety and perceptions of safety and how do we manage infectious disease coming out of such a hard and trying year where that has felt so out of control. And so, what are the things that we need to do to feel in control again? Right. So one of the things that we looked at, and it was actually the first breakout episode of the podcast, we actually called it, give the buildings yogurt. And so it’s definitely alternative, but we wanted to explore the understanding of a microbiome. And so what a microbiome is, is basically a collection of bacteria.

And a lot of people could be familiar with a microbiome as it relates to probiotics. So you often hear from your doctor, “Hey, have a yogurt a day.” Hey, you’re going to want to… kimchi, fermented foods are all really excellent for what we call gut health, right? And so in your gut, there is an entire microbiome that needs to be nourished. But essentially, again, going to that basic idea, it’s just a collection of microbes or bacteria. And so, understanding how important it is to cultivate that rich microbial environment on the inside of us. We also thought, Hey, there’s obviously microbes that are going on around us, in our external environment, in the built environment and in the spaces that we occupy on a daily basis from the desk that you’re touching to your phone. And so again, how do we really create these environments and again, mitigate and manage some of these… we’ll call them virulent and nasty pathogens like SARS-CoV-2 and a lot of other… again, strains of viruses and bacteria that we don’t want to interact with.

And so what we explored was understanding perhaps what goes against the common understanding in the past 10 or 20 years that we’ve got to clean all of it, right? So we’ve got to bleach down every surface. We have to use antimicrobial materials, whether that’s impregnating our flooring materials or the laminates, or again, materials that designers and architects would be very familiar with. And so there’s been a surge of wanting these anti-microbial materials to perform for us in these environments again, in the spirit of mitigating and managing these harmful bacteria that we perceive as really on terrible for us to interact with and they are, right? Nobody wants to get sick, but we challenged that notion of, do we actually have to kill all the bacteria?

And we talked to a microbiologist, Jack Gilbert, and he conducted some really fascinating research and basically what he concluded. He studied this new building, this brand new construction, a hospital in Chicago and swapped with Q-tips every day, the nurse’s station and the patient rooms. And what he found was that actually humans shed microbes at an alarming rate per minute, right? So in these environments that they thought were completely sterile and bacteria free, pathogen free. It took 30 seconds to basically dirty the room again and so it’s just this interesting finding that there’s no such thing as a sterile space.


Kip:

I’m trying to understand all that because I certainly understand the idea of a clean room. And then the standard approach to that is reacting by bleaching everything and it sounds like what you’re saying is that, that’s important. However, they’re still after humans going there, it puts bacteria back in there. And I’m trying to understand the angle of by knowing this, are we saying that we can figure out, maybe not be as extreme on cleanliness on that side we’re killing everything and then maybe there’s actually healthy bacteria or other building materials that we don’t have to have everything that stainless steel or something, right?


Kaelynn Reid:

Absolutely. So that’s yes, a hundred percent. So I would say then that hyper reaction that you’re discussing and talking about that we’ve seen and for good reason, again, because COVID is serious and we want to make sure that we are having good cleaning protocols and procedures,

but something that we found very interesting was that Jack Gilbert was… had made this discovery about actually using probiotics and intentionally planting probiotics in the built environment. So hence the name, give the buildings yogurt. And so what he looked at was, “Okay, it’s maybe not a good idea to bleach on every surface.” Right? Because one of the challenges of that is that when you bleached on every surface, not only do we not create a sterile environment, because as soon as the human comes in the door, you’re shedding microbes off of your skin and clothes and hair and all the things.

But when you do that cleaning process and you do bleach everything down, often the strains of bacteria that are surviving are what we call the really virulent ones, right? The ones that survive the bleach and that are the really nasty bugs that you really don’t want to be in contact with. And so understanding that it becomes more about dampening the bad bacteria, right? And if it’s a war between good bacteria and the bad bacteria, how do we empower the good bacteria to basically outnumber the bad bacteria, right? So now it’s not a game of completely eliminating every bacteria. It’s about creating a terrain that’s healthy, right? So it’s creating a terrain that has more good bacteria in it than bad bacteria. And so what he found was that you could actually put bacillus spores, which is a fancy term for a probiotic.

You could intentionally place these in the built environment that people could interact with, whether they’re touching it, whether they… again, are breathing those spores in. But what’s really awesome is that again, these probiotics can have a positive effect on the body. So now it’s not just about, “Well, shoot, how do I go into the built environment and not get sick?” It’s about, “I can go into the built environment and actually have a positive immune response.” Because we know that probiotics actually modulate the immune system and so it shifts the immune system in a positive direction, right? So instead of it being allergies, we think of as a negative reaction, right? So instead it modulates it to a positive experience. And so just having all of that opportunity to really leverage our materials that we use in the built environment to really serve us well and can even have a more positive impact even instead of just a neutral one it’s just fascinating. And it’s really… it’s cool to think about that we have that opportunity.


Kip:

Yeah. Well, it makes a lot of sense to me as a layman. And I do have a lot of questions here with the probiotic yogurt thing. And one, because I do talk to a lot of people and there’s health and safety and safeness of an environment. There’s a lot of contributions from ventilation, the off gassing, the materials, all of that and water that you use and from a building materials. So the way I’m interpreting what you’re saying is that one, we don’t have to like kill everything too. We can put some good yogurt on there and it may actually help people, right? And it’s combating all those bad things and then three, is there a… are you thinking that it’s one, either part of the building material or it’s layered like you mentioned impregnating and something before, so are those the two options?


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. So, it’s interesting when we talked to Jack Gilbert, he still in trials, right? And trying to understand just how this would manifest itself in the built environment.

And so what we find when materials are impregnated, typically that’s an anti-microbial, which again, studies are showing that anti-microbial are maybe not working as well as we think they are. There just isn’t really sufficient evidence that shows that anti-microbial agents and chemicals that we’re using are one, really optimal for the health and wellness of people. When you just even think about the manmade synthetic chemicals that have to be used. You mentioned off gassing and a few other concerns, but additionally, we don’t even know that they’re doing a great job of keeping the bacteria off, right? So that’s what Jack Gilbert proved before that, that’s really not doing it seeming job. So with that, we could look at probiotics.

What Jack Gilbert has looked at the most has been the use of the cleaning product. So the bacillus score actually has to have water to be the carrying agent onto the material. So the thought would be, “Could you spray a door handle with this probiotic agents?” And so when people come into contact with that again, you’re getting this transdermal effect. In addition, we also explored in that episode, we chatted with Rosie Broadhead, who is this amazing fashion designer from the UK, and she’s actually putting probiotics into textiles.

So she was using it from just a clothing standpoint. Could you put on a t-shirt and again, get some of those transdermal benefits like vitamin K or zinc or vitamin D. So she’s doing some really excellent research on that and so of course my hope, my bias coming from the furniture world is that we could use some of Rosie’s research and bring that probiotic textile. That fabric onto our furniture. Seriously could you think about how cool it would be to sit in a waiting room in a hospital and you’re just getting this nice dose of a probiotic or vitamins or minerals or amino acids, it’s nuts what we could do, right?


Kip:

Yeah. I’m just thinking I can take a bite out of the chair.


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. Right, right, right. Maybe not edible, but same concept.


Kip:

I’m hungry.


Kaelynn Reid:

It’s Willy Wonka out there. I know, I know.

 

Kip:

That is cool. I love those ideas because you got to think about these ideas, test them out, see what works and that’s how we innovate. And the whole idea of livable, breathable or healthy building materials is awesome. And I was talking to a guy the other day, he invented plant-based coatings, right? And soy, and it’s awesome. It’s recyclable has the same durability or even better as far as quality. And it’s just… you have to have people in the world think about those things and so the probiotic textiles, the cleaning solution. So how does that… because you still have the problem. If you have equal running around on your door knob and you spray a bunch of yogurt on it, for example, is that helping? Right.


Kaelynn Reid:

Right. So there are certainly areas where it’s going to be appropriate that we still want to keep sanitation levels high, right? So for example, in a surgery room, I want that room clean, right? I want that room as sterile as I can get it. I understand that once a human or my surgeon enters the space that perhaps it’s not a 100% sterile environment. For the most part, I want to be using either natural antimicrobial materials. You discussed steel. Copper is one of those that’s just naturally inherently antimicrobial that doesn’t require the use of chemical ad-ons.

I want that space to be real clean, right? So I think it just depends on discerning the appropriateness of where we want some of that to be. And so with the E. coli discussion, we’re not saying to not clean the space, we’re simply saying that we want to, again, outnumber the bad guys. And so the hope would be the probiotic that you spray on the door knob that has the E. coli on it is not going to eradicate the E. coli, but it is going to outnumber it. And because what we want to do is lessen the likelihood that you would interact with the E. coli by changing the… we’re going to call it the terrain, the microbiome of the door handle, if that makes sense. Because now you’ve outnumbered the bad guys by intentionally putting on these good probiotics.


Kip:

Yeah. So I’m liking that too, since there’s more probiotics and bacteria in general than whenever you made contact, since the large majority is positive that you lessen your exposure to the bad stuff.


Kaelynn Reid:

Exactly. And so that really is the hope in interacting with the built environment, if we can shift that experience so instead of, coming in contact more often with, perhaps COVID being one virus strain or perhaps it’s E. coli or something different. Again, we want to lessen that likelihood that you’re going to come in contact with that. And it has been shown that when probiotics are in better numbers, it snuffs out the bad guys, right? And that’s what we want is to snuff out the bad bacteria, it overruns them, it runs them out.

 

Kip:

It’s like you are shoved in the corner, stay there.


Kaelynn Reid:

You are shoved in the corner. Yes. Do not coming contact with the humans.


Kip:

That’s cool. Now, is there a situation where the probiotics can actually counteract or fight or eat the bad probiotics? The bad bacteria?


Kaelynn Reid:

So, my understanding of that is, yes. I don’t know that I can speak to that definitively as well as say Jack Gilbert could. I am not a microbiologist. I’m a designer, but I do know from the knowledge that I do have that, yes, that overcrowding is a good thing because it will again increase the likelihood that they could take over. I don’t know that they eat each other necessarily, but it does overcrowd them if that makes sense, making them have to go and get out of the room a little bit. So it’s like a large party. They get escorted right out the door. So, but again, we’re not suggesting that you don’t clean surfaces, right? We’re not suggesting that you don’t clean surgery rooms or healthcare spaces. We’re just simply saying that, “Hey, there’s a different way to look at this instead of that hyper reaction of we have to bleach it all down and kill every microbe there.”

Because a lot of studies are actually showing that two sterile of an environment isn’t good for the body either, right? We want to be able to develop our immune systems naturally. And so it’s what you hear when… there are certain doctors that will say, when a child is born, let him put stuff in his mouth by all means, let them explore, let them… they’re touching things, they’re putting toys in their mouth and random your car keys, things that you’re like, “Oh my gosh, why? Please don’t do that.”

But it’s actually helping them develop their immune system and that exposure to different bacteria and microbes, some of which I’m sure is not great, right? You don’t know where your keys have been, but a lot of that is actually really informative for the child to develop their immune system. And so we want to give our bodies the opportunity to have exposure to these different microbes. So when we kill them all and create this sterile environment that’s over sterilization, we’re robbing our body of the opportunity to interact with that in an organic, natural way, if that makes sense.

 

Kip:

No, that’s great. Because I… again, I’m trying to translate that into building materials where either the actual formulation is probiotic. There’s maybe a mixture into it. There’s the spraying as you said, that might be a little more than it has to be used at some frequency. And maybe there’s coatings, right? There’s paints and other things like that.


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. So it has to be encapsulated so Rosie’s research is more encapsulated them, I think into beads almost. And then those beads get woven into the textile. But something to note is that you do have to have a carrying agent. So once again, the water becomes very key. So I would be very interested in how a coding or even paint, for example, could maybe perhaps enclose the microbes and the good bacteria so that when you touch a wall or you come in contact with again, your chair or the nurses station, the counter, then again, you would be getting this positive interaction.


Kip:

And so you said, again, I’m like a noob here. So when you say a caring agent, would that mean if the humidity goes up or if I touch it with sweat or just moisture, then it would activate the microbes?


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. So it does, it wants to be activated for sure by moisture, but you want to be careful that something that Jack and I had discussed as well is the challenge of you don’t want it to be too humid of an environment because then it’s friendly to mold, right? We don’t want that either, that’s not good. So definitely, there is opportunity and there is… I don’t know how to say, the road is wide open for microbiologists and material experts to come and say, “Let’s have a conversation and figure out how to put this in to everyday building materials.” And so we’re still pioneering and still researching how to do that best. But it’s something that we did want to bring to the forefront with the podcast, because it is happening and the research is being done and people are asking questions, and it feels really appropriate in this time to start asking those questions, right? So we want to make sure that the result of the pandemic is innovation as designers, right? We want to be moving forward and progressing.


Kip:

Very cool. And is… have you thought about more ventilation use of that?

 

Kaelynn Reid:

That becomes very important too. Of course, the indoor air quality as well, it’s an expensive venture, but it has been from my research that I’ve looked at and just some of the anecdotal things I’ve seen in the field. That has been a first step for a lot of design firms and architects to look at and say, “Okay, great. Let’s take a look at the building and see where we can make improvements.” Whether that’s with HEPA filters, whether that’s… again, updating those HVAC systems, it’s just expensive, right? So, that’s not a cheap fix. And so sometimes building owners and users and stakeholders are sitting here going, “Okay, well, I don’t really know if I have the money to undergo that venture or not.” So it’s possible that cleaning solutions like this could be an additional enhancement or support. It’s not going to replace having a good HVAC system, but it is going to be a good enhancement.


Kip:

Yeah. I was thinking more of a blower, put the yogurt next to the blower on the HVAC and it just blows all that-


Kaelynn Reid:

Oh, yeah. It’s totally possible. I think you would still have to have the activating agent, right? So if it was dry and you blew it into the space, what would be the-


Kip:

Yeah. Humidifiers or air conditioning.


Kaelynn Reid:

It could be. It could be. Yeah. So, again, these are all great questions, but I think we’re still trying to test how that would work best.


Kip:

I just think of it. How can I get yogurt in the room? While there’s the vet. There’s the pillows. There’s the materials, there’s this [inaudible 00:29:29] we’re going to make yogurt everywhere.


Kaelynn Reid:

Everywhere. Everywhere.


Kip:

The water. That’s another place for yogurt.


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. It’s going to change how you think really, for weeks after that podcast episode, I was just very conscious of everything that I came in contact with that I was touching.


Kip:

It’s really cool. I do apply that. So for as far as actual progress, I know it sounds like there’s research. It sounds like… is this a substantive research area? Is there experiments that are going on? Where are we on this?


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. So Jack Gilbert is a professor at the University of San Diego. And so he is continuing to conduct trials and research on, again, making this viable and making things realized in the materials industry. He’s given many, many talks even to the A&D industry again, I’m just changing that paradigm shift of clean-ability and what that means, but again, I think you just have to look for these people, these ideas and voices that are the forefront in the field, because this is certainly not common knowledge. I don’t think. So, I think we are still in a research phase. I know that with cleaning products, he feels more comfortable in that lane then save a steel. But I don’t think that we’re far off from somebody picking up this idea or this notion just like Rosie did and saying, “Well, why can’t I put that into my textiles? Why can’t I put that into t-shirts or on furniture?”


Kip:

Yeah. No, that’s great. And then how did you get interested in, because it sounded like COVID, you’re an out of the box thinker anyways. Did you wake up one day and say, “Hey, yogurt.” This sounds cool.


Kaelynn Reid:

So, I’ll be totally honest. I have been working on my own microbiome health for about a year and it’s been something that I personally am very interested in. I am really, really a sucker for alternative wellness. If anybody knows me, they know that I’m a hippie at heart. And so I think having that come from just my own personal side hustle passion of wanting to pursue health in that way, it was something that easily translated from it being, “Okay, well, how do I get my gut health on track and get my microbiome to be nourished.” To, “Hey, there’s something here that could be really awesome for designers too.” And so I stumbled on Jack’s research and was like, “Oh, we’ve got to do this. Oh, a hundred percent.” So.


Kip:

There’s a like-minded person here.


Kaelynn Reid:

Absolutely. Somebody’s got to be on my team, right?


Kip:

That’s awesome. And is this something that your company is also helping out or is this more of a personal project?


Kaelynn Reid:

No. Yeah. The podcast is sponsored and brought to you by Kimball International. So it is their baby. So yeah, it’s just been such a pleasure. So, who thought this would be our job, right? It’s really awesome to just have great conversations with people like you and the others that get to be on my podcast. And I just… we’re exposed to so many cool things and you just feel like a more well-rounded person and it’s our job. So I just feel like the luckiest person ever.


Kip:

No, that’s awesome. It certainly a passion enjoying your work, making a difference who could ask for more, right?


Kaelynn Reid:

No doubt.


Kip:

So that’s a great thing. And so I know we’re coming to the conclusion of what we’re doing here. And so with what you’re doing in the safe spaces, what’s on the horizon for the next few months?


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. So I think with the podcast, we are exploring on different areas. So we’ve got an upcoming one on space actually, an architecture on Mars, which we’re very excited about, but as it relates to, again, pursuing safety in spaces. I think it’s just staying on the cutting edge, right?

Of what does safety look like? Because I think those perceptions are changing. Right now it looks like outdoor spaces and how do we reimagine and rethink what tasks are normally being done inside that could be done outdoors, right?

A lot of offices are trying to determine, “Can I put my desk outside.” Right? And sometimes that’s not always feasible, but it does give you this opportunity to re-imagine it because right this moment, outdoor spaces are perceived as safer of course, as indoor spaces or rather they’re perceived as safer than inside spaces right now. And so I think having that understanding of wellness, just being cemented in our mind going forward, it changes your lens on everything, from where I do my work to again, the microbiome and how I interact with the wood you would on my desk. And so it carries into so many ways that we do life and just interact with our built spaces in general.


Kip:

Good stuff. So people needed to reach out to you or your podcast or whatever information would you give them, how could they do that?


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah. Absolutely. So we are on Instagram at alternative design podcast and just what you think it might be. So you can definitely check us out there. We are also, if you go to kimballinternational.com/alternative design podcast. You will find the players and the different ways that you can listen either through Spotify or Google or Apple Podcasts, wherever you’re listening choice may lead you, but you can check out some info on the different episodes and what’s upcoming and you can subscribe to our newsletter to stay in touch and stay in contact with the newest things that are happening with us, so.


Kip:

That’s good stuff. Well, again, it was a joy talking to you. I look forward to maybe doing another podcast with you in the future.


Kaelynn Reid:

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much Kip. I appreciate it.


Kip:

Thank you. Have a good day.

 

Kaelynn Reid:

Awesome. You too.


Graham:

All right, folks that wraps up for today’s show. So you can find our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and SoundCloud by searching for the Concora Corner. And if you’d like to, we’d love a rating and a short review if you listen on Apple, any feedback is appreciated on any of our shows that are coming out and… or just the show in general, or if you just want to say hello. You can find out more about Concora and our services at www.concora.com. We’re on Facebook at facebook.com/Concorallc. We are on Twitter at Concora and you can find us on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/company/concora. Thanks for listening and have a great day.

 

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